How do we keep the stories of the Holocaust alive?

January 27, 2023

To mark Holocaust Remembrance Day on 27th January, Chris is joined by Indeed Global Client Partner Lauren Engelman. Outside of Lauren’s work at Indeed, she is also an active volunteer with 3GNY. 3Gs are 3rd generation survivors of the Holocaust and their passion is to keep their grandparents' stories alive through education, programming and allyship with other marginalized communities. She leads an intersectional event series as a volunteer titled: Jewishness, Activism and Belonging. Join us to hear her grandmother and great parents’ incredible story. Having survived Auschwitz, Bremen and Bergen Belsen, they inspire much of her inclusion work and passion for helping others.

- Hello everyone. I am Chris Hyams ,CEO of Indeed. My pronouns are he and him, and welcome to the next episode of Here to Help. At Indeed, our mission is to help people get jobs. This is what gets us out of bed in the morning and what keeps us going all day, and what powers that mission is our people. Here to help is a look at how experience, strength, and hope inspires people to want to help others. My guest today is Lauren Engelman, Global Client Partner at Indeed. Lauren has been with Indeed for almost seven years. This Friday, the 27th of January is International Holocaust Remembrance Day and outside of Lauren's work at Indeed, she is also an active volunteer with 3GNY. 3Gs are third generation survivors of the Holocaust, and their passion is to keep their grandparents' stories alive through education programming and allyship with other marginalized communities. Lauren leads an intersectional event series as a volunteer titled Jewishness, Activism and Belonging. Lauren's grandmother and great-grandmother survived Auschwitz, Bremen and Bergen-Belsen, and they inspire much of her inclusion work and passion for helping others. Lauren, thank you so much for joining me today.

- Thank you, Chris. The pleasure is all mine.

- For everyone's accessibility, before we start, let me share a short visual description. I am a bald man with glasses wearing a blue T-shirt and a black sweater. Behind me is the North Austin skyline.

- And hi, I'm Lauren. My pronouns are she and her. I am a woman with long, dark hair, wearing a green sweater with a floral painting behind me.

- All right, well let's start, Lauren where we always start these discussions, by asking How are you doing right now?

- I am doing great. I had a lovely long weekend with the family and I'm so happy to be here with you today. Such an honor.

- Well, I am very happy to be here as well and we have a lot to talk about. Before we dive in, can you just tell us a little bit about your role at Indeed?

- Absolutely. I am a Global Client partner. We create hiring and service delivery strategies for some of the most complex global enterprise accounts here at Indeed. In my day-to-day, I work very closely with national account managers and senior enterprise CS reps, on account strategies globally, and we work in side-by-side, with the international sales manager. So the gap team, many of our colleagues are on the call today supporting me from around the world, so, thank you all. It's such a phenomenal team.

- So, Holocaust Remembrance Day is the 27th of January, and I'd really love to start by honoring your grandmother and remembering your great-grandparents. Can you please share with us their incredible story?

- Absolutely. And thank you so much for commemorating this important day. It's really important for myself and many Jewish employees. Well, I'm thrilled to share my grandmother's story. My grandmother, Lilian, she was born in Kolozsvar, Hungary, which is now Cluj-Napoca Romania. She was the only child of Elizabeth and Albert, and she had a pretty idyllic, beautiful childhood. She went ice skating, she went skiing in the winter, she went to Montessori school, she had a boyfriend. They went to dances and ballet, in the summer went to the vineyards in Hungary. And the one thing that's really important to note is that the Hungarian community was highly assimilated, so they really felt so, such an integral part of the community. They really built that middle class in Hungary. In March, 1944, everything really changed for my grandmother. Throughout the 40s, there was of course a rise of the Nazis. And even throughout this time, Albert, my great-grandfather, they housed many refugees who were escaping throughout Europe, who were going to Palestine and other safe havens. So, they knew something was happening, but again, this community was so assimilated into the middle class. They really felt super secure and safe. My great-grandfather served in World War I, he had a medal, how could this happen to them? In March, 1944, everything changed. The Nazis came to power in Transylvania and all of a sudden they were second class citizens. Lily and her parents had to wear Jewish, the Stars of David, the yellow stars on their clothing. She was unable to continue her schooling. She had to go to a Jewish only school and Jewish residents of Kolozsvar they could not continue working. Business owners had to give up their businesses. They had a strict curfew every evening. It was really intense and really scary. In May, 1944, things got even worse for the communities in Hungary. They were told to pack a bag of just one change of clothing. Did not know where they were going. They found themselves in these cattle cars going to the ghetto. My grandma remembers how crowded and hoard condition in this travel to the ghetto. One thing she vividly remembers in her memoir, was a mother trying to nurse a baby and the guard yelling at them. And basically what happened, some of the Jewish prisoners just formed a circle around this woman so she can nurse her baby. Also, there were many elderly individuals in this cattle car and without food or water, they were starting to pass out and get very ill. Some even passed away in this journey. Once they arrived at the ghetto, it was a roof to barrack with open air. So, poor conditions there was no food. Luckily, Albert who owned a tailor and clothing shop in Kolozsvar, his manager was able to smuggle in food through the truck drivers of the cattle cars. So, they were able to get food and stay alive essentially when many individuals were dying in the ghetto from the hoard condition and lack of food and water. One fateful day, after about two months in these conditions in the ghetto, they were again being rounded up to go to the train and cattle cars. The destination was unknown. Again, they were trapped in this cattle car. My, grandma noted in her memoir, we didn't even know what the outside world was. We couldn't see the stars, we couldn't see the sky. There were just little peaks in the wood, that they could see that she was actually alive and living. When she got off at the end of that journey, she saw the words as she and her family arrived at the Auschwitz death camp. My grandfather was badly injured by a German officer on the cattle cars. So he was not walking well. They were told they had to walk one to two miles into the camp. And my great-grandfather, told them to go ahead and he would meet them inside. That was the last time that my grandmother saw her father. He was immediately taken to the gas chambers and murdered. Many, many thousands, or millions of individuals, Jewish and other prisoners were killed in these gas chambers at Auschwitz and other death camps. Once he arrived to the camp, my grandmother found herself in front of none other than the "Angel of Death," Josef Mengele. He was the co-conspirator of the Final Solution with Hitler and other leaders. He was sending elderly women with children, pregnant women to the left. And he signaled to my great-grandmother, Elizabeth to go to the left as well. And she walked up to this monster and with her dirty small hand, she was a very petite woman, "Please, I want to work. "Please let me work and stay. "I promise I'll work hard". And he took pity on her and sent her to the right with Lily. So, they stayed together. We now know those who went to the left, were going right to the gas chambers. At Auschwitz, all they spent all day long, it was the death camp. They were lined up in rows and rows of people, to making sure they could not escape. Although my grandmother at one point saw many individuals trying to escape and be electrocuted by the barbed wire at the perimeter of the camp. To cope with the hellish condition my grandmother noted, it smelled like Clorox. There was not a sign of life, there was no sign of grass. It was just gray and horrid with horrendous temperatures of hot during the day, freezing at night. Their coping mechanism, Elizabeth and Lilian, they created these dream meals, where for a moment in time they could escape this hell of starvation, disease, death all around them. In their mind, they could imagine the silk linens, they could imagine the appetizers, the coffee, the coffee cake, the palacsinta, all the Hungarian delicacies. And for a moment in time they could be away from this hell where the reality was the only food they were given if they were lucky was bread and rock soup. Not enough sustenance, but for a moment in time they could escape this hell and taste that food in their stomach. This was super helpful as well, because after my great-grandfather passed away, my great-grandmother was really starting to regress physically and mentally. And my grandmother, who was only 16, had to really mother her mother. After about two to three months in Auschwitz, they were selected for labor camp and this likely saved their lives. At labor camp, they were in Bremen, Germany, and Lily would be up at 6:00 AM every morning and working until 8:00 PM every night, sometime not going to bed until 12. It was really intense work and my great-grandmother was very weak. So, my grandmother was multilingual. She spoke German and many other languages. She was able to get kind of a leadership role as a prisoner, so she could work hard for her and her mother and make sure that her mother wasn't killed on the spot, which was often the case, living in this feeling of terror. Also, during this time, my grandmother had a few, what she calls guardian angels. There was a Belgian seaman who would leave a roll and honey in the ruin where they were doing this hard labor. So, a few times a week her and her mother could share some food. And this is also a really interesting story. There was a French prisoner of war group, local to the camp as well, and the POWs got these Red Cross packages, delicacies in that time, soap, chocolate, letter writing paper and other delicacies cigarette, things like that. So, they felt many platonic, or sometime somewhat romantic, but more platonic relationships with the Hungarian women who were in this platoon. So, my grandmother again, used her knowledge of French to translate some of the letters and get additional food and get a little bit of normalcy in this time. One fateful day on Yom Kippur, 1944, my grandmother arrived at Bremen with the women, and Bremen was bombed to the ground. The end of the war was nearing. The allies were coming in and the Germans were getting really nervous. So, what the Germans did next was across Europe. It was called the Death March. And this is something that across Holocaust history, this has happened at many of the camps because basically, the allies were coming in on the concentration camps and the death camps and the only choice was to really get people out and where can they go? So, in this death march, my grandmother and great-grandmother walked overnight in snow, freezing weather, inappropriate shoes, clothes, many women passed out, died, or were shot in this walk. So, two out of the three women that were in this platoon passed away on this death march. I don't even know how my great-grandmother survived at this point. And at the end of this death march, they arrived at Bergen-Belsen and my great-grandmother, my grandmother Lily, she cannot talk about Bergen-Belsen, or see pictures of Bergen-Belsen at a museum without crying. She described Bergen-Belsen as hell on earth. And it's true. In her memoir she wrote, when she arrived at Bergen-Belsen after the death march, she was so exhausted, she laid down on what she thought was a bale of hay, just to sleep and in the morning she realized she was actually sleeping on a pile of dead bodies. Basically at Bergen-Belsen there was not enough room for burial. There were just people dying constantly. There were guards shooting from the towers. You were lucky if you didn't get shot, or sick. Typhus disease was rampant. Typhus is a lice disease and all the clothes that they would give the prisoners were full of lice and so many of the prisoners were getting really sick. By the end of the war, my great-grandmother was only about 60 pounds and highly malnourished and really sick with typhus. So, throughout this time at Bergen-Belsen, my grandmother noticed, she wrote in her memoir, "We were there, but I could not call this living. "It was really just, it was just hell on earth". In May, 1945, the British allied forces came to the camp. They spoke in Yiddish into the microphone and told the prisoners that they were free and they couldn't believe it. And even my grandmother, when she was at Auschwitz, she told me she never, for some reason, she never thought of dying. She always knew that she would make her way. There were only a few moments, in Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen that she felt like she could not go on. But at Auschwitz she heard the Camp Orchestra, heard a beautiful song that reminded her of childhood. And at Bergen-Belsen, I don't know how she could see this death everywhere, disease and just move on. So, when the allied forces, when the British came, they openly wept, when they saw the conditions that were at Bergen-Belsen. They could not believe what they were seeing. My great-grandmother had to seek urgent medical care as she was very ill with typhus and very malnourished and sadly many of the freed prisoners, would not go on to have a happy and healthy life, 'cause they were too sick to move on and they passed away. At the end of the war, my grandmother and great-grandmother together, found themselves in Uden in Germany, which was a British, kind of a mock British government since the Germans lost all power at that point. But they wanted to go to America, so they made their way to Frankfurt. And my grandmother found a job at the Jewish Welfare Board, where she started to get back on her feet with other displaced persons and started a new life there. Interestingly enough, at one point, so it was very common, my great-grandmother was an underground marketeer at Bergen-Belsen and in the DP camps. So, basically stealing, or sharing, or trading goods. You know, this was very common. And Officer Walter Berliner came and did an interview, because they were looking to get visas to the United States and questioned her, met my grandmother. And then a few months later, Walter, who was a Jewish refugee from Vienna, who found himself in the US armed forces, asked my grandmother to dance and the rest was history. Walter and Lily were the first Jewish wedding in Frankfurt after the war. And then they came to Queens New York and started a new life here. My grandmother is still alive, she's 96. My great-grandmother passed away in 91, so she still lived a very long life. But Lily, she came to the US, had a very long career in social work. She obtained her masters of public health when she came to the US as well. And she, her proudest role is being grandmother and also now being a great grandmother to my children, Eliza and Daniel. Eliza is named after Elizabeth. So, that's really meaningful to her and she is so thrilled my younger brother David is getting married this year as well. So, her seeing us happy is the best revenge.

- Thank you Lauren, for sharing that extraordinary story, it's really remarkable the amount of detail that has been passed along and that you're able to then share with other people to ensure that these stories stay alive. There's so many stories that were lost, of course and that's so important and it's really meaningful for you to share it with all of us today. I'd love to ask, because we were talking about this last week that you knew some of the facts, but you didn't grow up with this story and you were a little older before you heard it the first time. Can you talk about when you really came to know the details of this story for the first time?

- Absolutely. So, what's interesting about Holocaust survivors, many of them didn't share their story for many years after the war. The many opened up for the first time when great-grandchildren, when grandchildren and great-grandchildren came to the picture. So, according to my dad, the first time Lily even opened up a little bit was in 1980, there was a survivor reunion in Israel and that was the first time she really told my dad about it after 25 to 30 years of him being here. And when my brother and I were born, she felt more of a responsibility to share her story with us. And a moment that really sticks out to me is when we took a family trip to Washington DC and we went to the Holocaust Museum there, it's an incredible museum, but really heavy stuff. And I saw the cattle cars, I saw images of the hair and my grandmother in Auschwitz, they cut her hair and took her shoes and put her in rags. And it was jarring for me to see that imagery and seeing the shoes and baby shoes. And I must have been in third grade, or so at that time and I just lost it. And my grandmother was able to share more about her story and showed us pictures of Auschwitz and Bergen- Belsen and we lit candles for the six million Jews that passed away during the holocaust at the end of museum. It was so meaningful and having the visual aids was as a child, really impactful. And I never could fully wrap my head around what happened until that moment.

- Now that you have this story and it's very clear that it's so foundational for you and so important, can you talk about how this experience that was shared with you, how it's influenced your perspective on the world and maybe now especially as a mother yourself, how that changes how you see the world and what your part is in it?

- Definitely. Well, something about my grandmother from those who know her is that she's actually the most warm, optimistic, kind, loving individual. She's like everyone's mom, everyone's grandma. And that optimism really sticks with me. There have been harder times in my life, layoffs, breakups, setbacks, and I always think of my grandmother, what would Lily do? And what she would do was keep moving forward. And also now being a mom, it's very sad, most of Holocaust survivors have passed away and I mean my grandmother's 96. Many survivors are in their 90s or even around 100. So, looking at my children, I'm a 3G, a third generation survivor and my kids are 4Gs. There's definitely a sense of urgency to keep these stories alive. I want my children to know their history and where they came from. We're especially lucky, 'cause my mom encouraged Lily to write down her story in a memoir. It's a very short memoir, but it has all the facts there and I can always go back to it and we're so lucky to have that. So, I want my children to know the story and I feel a responsibility as a grandchild to keep the stories of the Holocaust alive. We are living in a time with anti-Semitism rampant, with Holocaust denial, which is a worst kind of anti-Semitism. And I feel a responsibility to keep the stories alive and not let what you know, not only did the six million Jews who passed away, the many other victims of the Holocaust of all faith, I will not stand here and let these stories go away and let people make a false narrative.

- Talking about this next generation and what you hope to pass along, can you talk about this organization 3GNY, which you've been involved with for the past 10 years and little bit about this organization and how it was set up in the first place?

- Yes, 3GNY is an incredible organization. It is a nonprofit, it was founded in 2005 and it was really a grassroots social group, that was started in New York. And since then, we have chapters in many other cities across the US like Boston, DC, Miami, Arizona. And it was really founded as a support and social group for the third generation survivors. A core of that is education. So, one of the first pillars of 3GNY is called the We Do Program, which stands for We Educate and we basically have through third generation survivors going into schools. At that time it was all across New York City. So, I was able to go to schools in Brooklyn and Queens and the Bronx and share my grandmother's story with these different communities and the idea is that we are the last living link. Some of the 3G's grandparents are still alive, some have passed away. So, we are that last living link and we want to go in schools and share our story. Si nce then, 3GNY has really grown, in the last few years. They got a few larger donations that allowed them to do more programming and get out of their comfort zone. And in the virtual area of Covid , they were able to really expand into more event planning. And actually two years ago, Friday, I was reached out about an event to focus on Auschwitz survivors and they wanted me to run with this event, 'cause I had been with it involved with 3GNY for many years and then, parenting and working life gets busy. But then two years ago I got to produce this really amazing event, to preserve the memory of Auschwitz survivors and my dad was able to get some videos of my grandmother speaking and we got to share this and that really got the wheels turning and then I got to focus on my event series, Jewish Activism and Belonging. And it's been such a great place to just connect with like-minded individuals, to get the support. You get to be with people who just understand what you've been through. But the amazing thing is that when I was doing the We Do training, many years ago before I went into school, listening to the other 3G's, everyone's story was unique. Everyone was from a different country and a different story of survival. So, it's just been a wonderful group and the We Do program, they were in over 200 classrooms last school year and actually got in front of 7,500 students in the last school year. - I want to talk a little bit about, where we are today. According to a 2021 report by the American Jewish Committee, one in four Jewish Americans say that they have been a victim of anti-Semitic incidents, a physical attack, a racial slur. Can you talk a little bit about the rise in anti-Semitism and what can be done to counteract it, especially where we are in the workplace?

- Yes, anti-Semitism, it's really, it's tricky because I think, it's one of those ism's as LaFawn Davis would say, we got to be against all the isms and the phobias, but antisemitism is often a very deep-rooted, it's really nasty. It's not like an overt thing. It's often, it could be a small as a microaggression, it could be a comment on someone's appearance about money. Oh please don't do that. It could be about marriage, it could be about anything. But then on the flip side, you also have this really nasty underground antisemitism that really stems from Nazi views. It's, the Jews are taking over the world and over the media and conspiratorial thing. So, it recently been coming up a lot in pop culture. There is a very famous rapper, I'm not going to name names, but he is a very famous person and brought some of these views back into the mainstream. And I for one, never thought I would see Hitler, or Nazism them being praised in a public forum. That was quite shocking as a Holocaust educator and in a workplace at the Anti-Racism Daily, which is at A-R-D action around Hanukkah posted a fantastic post on Instagram with some tips to combat anti-Semitism in a workplace. I'm going to quote that here today. It's about speaking out against anti-Semitic acts and calling things out as they are. It's about acknowledging Jewish holiday, making space for those and understanding what the holidays are. So at Indeed it's really respecting a Jewish team member's right to celebrate Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur and respect that work's probably not going to happen on those days. We also need to include the Jewish community in DI and IRG happenings. We have our amazing Joy Jews and Indeed Affinity Group. Shout out to you all. That's been such a great support and I love seeing all of the holidays and the pictures of holidays and families. That's a really great support for Jewish employees too. And I think the last thing is really just to stand by your Jewish colleagues and check in on them when things happen in the media and the news that could be upsetting and really stand side-by-side with your Jewish colleagues.

- I want to ask about another facet of the work that you do, which is allyship, but before we jump into that, we were talking last week and there's this idea, a Jewish tenant that you were talking about. And can you describe to the folks listening who might not know, what does that mean and how does it influence your work? Inspiring you to want to support other marginalized communities?

- Yes, so means heal, or repair the world. And this comes actually from a third century rabbinical teaching interestingly enough. This goes side-by-side with the words sadaka, which really means making the world a better place. And as many Jews this call know, that's also a word for charitable giving, so though throughout Hebrew school you give sadaka. Now, really means the pursuit of social justice. And what it basically means is that, we can only watch out for our own community. We have to stand by other marginalized groups that need our support, whether it's in person, whether it's at charitable giving, protesting, activism, and really standing side-by-side. Adam Eli, who is a queer Jewish activist. I remember during, in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, he posted very, very accurately that means Black lives matter and mean trans life matter. means individuals at the borders lives matter and it really means that the Jewish community is going to link side-by-side with our brothers and sisters of all different faiths and backgrounds. We're going to stand in the face of bigotry and intolerance and we're going to make sure that you have an ally in our community.

- Looking at what it means to be an ally in the inclusion space. The event series that you're responsible for at 3GNY, Jewishness activism and belonging is really around this. Can you talk about the meaning of allyship and what this program does?

- Yes. So, as many as you know, I was a regional co-chair for women at Indeed and a lot of my work as an ally and a leader inspired the series. So, basically what I noticed and understandably so, a lot of the content and events in the Holocaust Remembrance faith and Jewish faith were very Ashkenazi Jewish focused. And again, it's understandable because Ashkenazi European Jews were most of the prisoners and now survivors of the concentration camps and were the victims of the Holocaust. But I thought there were many other stories that were really fascinating and that could be told. So, I went to the executive director and I pitched him my idea, which was Jewishness activism and finding belonging, the post World War II diaspora and intersection with marginalized communities. And what I really wanted to explore was, okay, so Holocaust survivors, they survived, what happens next? And what were some of the communities that they aligned and intersected with along the way? Some survivors immigrated to Shanghai, some found themselves in Latin America. So, I wanted to dig into some of these stories. So, in 2022 our first event was with Marian Ingram. She is a Holocaust survivor and one of the last living survivors of the Hamburg bombing. She came to the US and became a noted civil rights activist. She went to the March of Washington, was very much involved with the leaders at this time. She taught in the Freedom Schools in Mississippi and her big thing was that she was shocked in the American South that anti-Semitism was so prevalent in Europe and racism was beyond prevalent in the South and she could not stand by and watch this happen to her brothers and sisters. So, she became very involved in the Civil Rights movement. But we also, I looped in Josie Barber, I looped him in to be a moderator of that event. I thought with his black and Jewish heritage, he could really dig into some of these issues like no one else. So thank you Josie. Another exciting event we did last year was with Dr. Jake Newsome. He recently came out with a book titled "Pink Triangle Legacy". And it's all about the fascinating story of how the pink triangle, which was a marker in the concentration camps of those who were LGBTQ, actually became this symbol of activism and empowerment in the 1980s and 90s in search of gay rights. It was a very prevalent symbol with Act Up in the AIDS crisis in the 80s as well. And this is really unique, because as we all know, sometimes people try to take symbols of the Holocaust and it's highly inappropriate. Like with the Star of David and use it for their own agenda and it's just highly inappropriate. This was something that was no, we want to take this symbol of death and the concentration camps and turn it into a symbol of empowerment. And it was one of the most fascinating hours of my life. I learned so much from Dr. Newsome. And lastly, I produced an event in person that was more focused on just belonging. We did an event called Bagels and Babies, where we got together 3Gs and 4Gs in Central Park and we got to share stories and network and be together and just feel that sense of closeness after Covid.

- That's wonderful. So, talking about your work on Indeed on the inclusion side, you started the New York City chapter of our Women at Indeed Inclusion Resource Group, before you eventually became the the regional co-chair and served in that role for about two and a half years. Can you talk about the inspiration to start a new chapter in your local office?

- Yes. So, at that time I was working in sales in New York and I was a new mom, Eliza was just born and I was balancing, commuting into the city and working full-time, breastfeeding, pumping, just the balance of my husband, my beloved husband Tom, he travels quite a bit. So, I was really in the thick of it as a new mom, navigating for the first time. I was really inspired, my dear friend Tiffany Smith was one of the co-founders of LIT in the New York office and I love being a part of those events and I thought, you know, wouldn't it be amazing to have a support for women who at that time, were more of a minority in the sales organization and also for moms, this was before Parents and Caregivers, which created by my dear friend Sherry When. So, I really wanted to create this space in New York where people could be like, okay, what benefits can we advocate for? What events can we do? How can we support each other? And it was such a great opportunity. It really allowed me to fire up a lot of great skills, event planning, public speaking, working with leadership and it was so great to have that support and then it was such an honor to be, a regional co-chair and really take it to the next level.

- Can you talk a little bit about, one of the things that we have focused a lot on, in our Inclusion Resource groups, is around creating these intersectional events. And can you talk about some of the amazing work, that you and the women and Indeed team have worked on?

- Definitely. So, intersectionality was such a focus of Women at Indeed. I know for me in my eyes, I looked at Women at Indeed as the IRG that lifts up every other IRG at Indeed, because we intersect with every single other IRG's. So, it's a challenge but also an inspiration. My former co-chair Sarah Grant and I, this was such a priority for us. So, we did so many amazing events in two and a half years. One example is unpacking body positivity with Jessamyn Stanley. We worked with parents and caregivers, Access and Big on that event. Jessica Jensen was our fantastic host and we talked about body positivity and talking to her children about weight and food and all of those things. A lot of our colleagues and Women at Indeed, they created the finance series, of the personal finance series. So, we worked with IRG's like the Asian Network, Parents and Caregivers, Big. Talking about removing debt, talking about building wealth. And I think a lot of people took a lot from that series. We also, in 2020, something I was really proud of, we did what we called the Breonna Taylor call-a-thon. In the wake of Breonna's passing, I was like, let's get back to activism, let's get on the phone, let's send email, let's just take action. So we partnered with Big, just trying to get some accountability for some of the police forces in Kentucky. And lastly, one of the events I'm really proud of, is Sarah and I, we work very closely with Raj Tamari Neogi creating the Brave Space framework, that was used by a lot of the IRG's globally. This was back in 2020 and it was such an honor and a privilege to create that. Rash Kumari, she brings in some of that biology of belonging, of exclusion and inclusion. And it was such an honor to create that framework, which was then used by a ton of other IRGs globally.

- Unfortunately, our coming to the end of our time together here, this has been such an extraordinary conversation, but I'd love to finish up with the same final question that I ask everyone, which is, especially looking back now over the past almost three years since Covid, where as a company and as a community and as a world, we've all been through a set of extraordinary challenges. What in that experience has left you with some hope for the future?

- Oh man, it's a heavy question, but you know what? I look at my children and I look at all children and I have such a sense of hope for the future. My daughter, she is like a little like rainbow, sweet, loving and there's so much love that these kids have and I know from the inclusion side, I look at what we're teaching these kids now. Last week my husband showed Eliza that I Have a Dream speech and we talked about Dr. King and I think there's so much more tolerance and inclusion now that these kids are going to bring to the next generation. And I have so much hope for what these kids will bring. And I think these kids can teach us all a lesson of how to love, how to support each other and they bring so much light into the world.

- Before we close, I just want to share something that I think is meaningful to everyone here today. Indeed was actually founded by the child of a Holocaust survivor, Rony Kahan, our co-founder, is generally private, but he has offered to share this with everyone here and Indeed in the past. Rony's father, Simon Kahan was a survivor of Auschwitz, Mauthausen and Gunskirchen, he passed away just last year at the age of 93. And so I think it is safe to say that none of us would be here today having this conversation without Simon. And so, I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge Simon and share our gratitude. With that, I'm just going to say thank you again, Lauren, for coming here to share your experience, strength, and hope. And thank you for everyone who tuned in and asked the really thoughtful questions. And I am, I hope everyone is able to take time on Friday in reflection and self inquiry and recognition and acknowledgement of everything that we've talked about today. And Lauren, thank you so much for being a part of this.

- Thank you Chris. Thank you again for this amazing opportunity. Shout out Verna Lee, thank you for believing in me and encouraging me to put myself out there for this amazing opportunity. Thank you all who are here listening to my family story and being an ally to our community. And I hope you all have a very meaningful Holocaust Remembrance Day.

- Take care everyone. Thank you.

- Thank you.