Best of: How can we challenge bias and barriers to employment?

November 29, 2022

In February, Indeed announced that it was investing $10 million to launch “Essentials to Work”, a multi-prong investment to help struggling job seekers in the U.S. gain access to technology, transportation and criminal record-clearing services.

This week on Here to Help, Indeed CEO Chris Hyams catches up with the woman at Indeed who leads this effort, Parisa Fatehi-Weeks.

Fatehi-Weeks, who is the Board President of the Workers Defense Project and is on the board of HousingWorks Austin, speaks about the goals set by the Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) team at Indeed to help 30M job seekers facing barriers get hired. She also speaks about what fair chance hiring is and discusses Indeed’s partnership with Lyft’s Jobs Access Program.

- Hello everyone. I am Chris Hyams, CEO of Indeed. And welcome to the next episode of "Here to Help." At Indeed our mission is to help people get jobs. This is what gets us out of the bed in the morning and what keeps us going all day long and what powers that mission is our people. "Here to Help" is a look at how experience, strength and hope inspires people to want to help others. And my guest today is someone who has dedicated her life to helping others and has brought that passion and dedication to Indeed. Parisa Fatehi-Weeks is the senior director of global community impact at Indeed, her work supports our ESG commitments to help 30 million job seekers facing barriers get hired. Parisa has also worked as a civil rights community lawyer and serves on the Board of HousingWorks Austin and is the board chair of the Workers Defense Project. We will be talking about these and many other topics in our conversation today. Parisa thank you so much for joining me today.

- Thank you for having me, Chris.

- Let's start where we always start these conversations. How are you doing today?

- I'm doing well. I just came off of celebrating Nowruz with my family, which is the Persian new year, last week where I got to be with my partner, our two kids, my parents, my mother-in-law. So, it's hard not to feel grateful, especially given how conscious I am, how many people aren't getting to have that kind of experience right now. So, I think mostly feeling full of gratitude.

- Thank you for sharing that. Let's start with your role. How do we define community impact here at Indeed and how do you help people get jobs?

- Right, so community impact is within our social impact team, within the ESG organization. Of course, we think about helping all people get jobs, breaking down bias and barriers in the hiring process. The part that is unique about community impact is that we think very much about the communities where Indeed has its biggest footprints. And then we think about who are the folks who are most marginalized in those communities, may face the most economic insecurity, face the most barriers and how do we serve them? How do we celebrate the strengths of those communities, the assets that they bring to our cities and our metropolitan areas, but also how do we extend the best of what we have to make sure they're included, being lifted up and a part of the platform and the of solutions that we think about every day.

- We have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of topics that you care very deeply about and I care deeply about, but before we get into that, one of our earlier conversations, when we were first meeting, was me asking you how you pronounce your name and we've had a number of discussions about this and we've covered this actually on "Here to Help" before. But people who have names that are very commonly pronounced differently, by American speakers, oftentimes people just sort of roll with that as, in fact, probably most of the time they do, but I have sort of made it a practice of asking. And I know that in a handful of times I've done that here at Indeed it creates some complication, because I introduce you as Parisa, everyone else calls you Parisa. Can you talk a little bit, about what that experience is like and we're going to get into your immigrant experience, but just in a workplace in a personal setting, your name can be said many different ways and how you've thought about that and what that means.

- Yeah. I mean, first I want to say that I love the intentionality and desire to sort of get it right. That I've gotten from you and lots of other folks at Indeed, ever since I came here. I think in, yeah, in Farsi, like you said it's Parisa. And I think somewhere around kindergarten, I learned how to say my name or pronounce it in the way that was going to make it easiest for me to make friends and that was Parisa. It meant that I would have to repeat it fewer times. It meant that it didn't catch as much attention. I wouldn't have to like help the teacher three times, work on it in front of the whole class. So, I think somewhere in kindergarten it just stuck, Parisa and it sort of compartmentalized my life, where there was home and Iranian social gatherings and then school and work. And those were the two tracks. And honestly, at least I'm not super conscious of it that I'm suppressing a part of my identity, by saying, Parisa. It's been a part of my life for so long. And I really am a hyphenated, I feel hyphenated in my identity and in my culture and that I'm Iranian and I'm American. So, it's kind of felt natural to me to do that. Although I do wonder what if there were more Chrises around when I was younger, maybe that would've changed the trajectory, but as is now I think my nature is to put people at ease, to make people feel comfortable and when I feel like I'm setting them up for something that's difficult to say, it makes me want to run the other direction. So, it's a mixed bag, but it's sort of embracing the messiness of it has also been pretty cool over the last few months here.

- Yeah and I'm also conscious of the fact that I'm not pronouncing it exactly right. Like even when I hear you say it, and I'm sort of making the effort, but also not trying to tell anyone else that they need to do the same, but anyway, thank you for sharing that and for allowing me to at least give it a shot. So, let's talk about the immigrant experience. So, you were born in Iran. You came here with your family when you were young. I mean, it seems like a sort of too obvious question, but how did that shape your view of the world, being from one place and growing up somewhere else and how you think about the world today?

- Sure, yeah. So, my parents moved here with my brother and me when I was an infant, my dad was going to be getting his PhD at the University of Texas at Austin. We thought we would only be here for two years to do his coursework, but there was a political revolution in Iran and we just, it became unsafe for us to go back or unwise. And so my parents made that choice that so many immigrant parents do, which is to throw themselves into a situation that felt very uncomfortable and in a situation in which they were going to have to start over in many ways and leave behind all that they had built to stay here on the chance that it would help my brother and me, get lots more opportunities, than we would've if we had gone back. And so, we grew up in actually graduate student housing and we rode the city and the university buses. And my mom worked at the PCL, which is the big library on the UT campus. And there was something very noticeable to me from very early on as a child, as soon as I was capable of speaking full sentences, I could speak English without an accent. And so it was not long before my brother and I, were the ones who would handle what you might think of as like business phone calls for the family, because it became, well, one, it was easier than my parents sort of English, being their distant second language, sort of packing their way through a conversation. But secondly, people just treated us differently. And so that's something that as a child at such an early age to understand in-group, out-group dynamics and to know that language was one of those signals of power. So, as a six year old, I like I had this like access to power that even my mom didn't by putting me on the phone to be able to speak English without an accent. I think it just, it very much made me conscious of power who gets it and who doesn't. And how do I make sure that I have it when I need it to protect my family or the people I love. And frankly, it was a sort of 20-year journey, before I became a citizen in the United States. And we had lots of opportunities to, I had lots of opportunities along the way to learn what a privilege it is to hold United States citizenship. Some scary times and some, yeah, just times when I became crystal clear on the fact that who you are as a human and the value you bring to your neighbors, to your family, to your school, to your workplace has very little to do with your citizenship status. And so if only we could unlock all of that feeling of belonging for everyone, I think we would have a very, very different understanding of who is part of our community and how much everyone has to contribute.

- Very beautiful. Thank you. So, you told the story before and I'd love to have you tell it here about your time, as a undergraduate at UT, when you ended up running for student body president. How did that come about and what did that experience mean to you?

- First of all, this is ancient history. And it's really funny that I still, this is like, I'm like an old has been and that's like one of my highlights from long ago, but let's put that aside. It is a good story. It's a cool story, because remember that feeling of outsiderness, but I grew up in many ways on the UT campus. I helped my mom stamp the due dates in the library books, when I was off for the summer. I'd go to work with her at the PCL and I'm not sure they ever, my parents ever felt like they fully belonged. So, when I was a student at UT years later, I was sort of finding my own way, very different mindset than what my parents had experienced the generation prior. And I was involved in all the clubs that make you feel like you belong and that make you feel better about not studying for that test or reading that big long article or book you're supposed to be reading. So, I was like in all the things, but student government was not one of them. In my mind although UT is big and wonderful in so many ways, there was like a majority culture in my mind that did not look like me. And in my mind student government, was kind of for those people that kind of fit a certain profile. And again, I was not it but I was involved. And so what happened was, it was about the time when you have to decide, as sort of for campaign purposes, if you're going to file to run. And two men who were my peers, they happened to be White men, they were not running together, but two separate people asked me if I would run as their vice presidential candidate, because you do better in the student government elections if you run as what we call a ticket. So, you can kind of like build up support. It had never occurred to me to run for student government president until then. And I thought, "Well, if two different people are asking me "to be their vice presidential candidates "and they're both men. "And I honestly, with all due respect, "because they're both good people, "I felt like I could do a better a job, "than those two particular people." I decided that I would, what the heck I would actually turn it around and I would be the presidential candidate. And I asked one of them to be the vice presidential candidate. And off we went and the rest is history, but yeah, it's pretty crazy. For someone at that age to run to represent, like a 50,000 student body, yeah, 50,000, one of the biggest in the country, it was a unique experience. And one I will never, ever forget. And I'm so thankful for it.

- So, you stuck around at UT and then ended up going to UT Law School. What inspired you to want to study law?

- So, I actually right after undergrad, I moved to Spain for a minute. And then I moved to Washington DC and worked, I did a little time on Capitol Hill. And then for the federal government, I worked for the EPA and I had classic immigrant parents that were like, lawyer or doctor, lawyer or doctor, what's it going to be? And I was like putting it off, putting it off. And I wanted to do public policy school. So, I was going to go to the LBJ School back in Austin. And I went ahead and also applied to law school. And I deferred it for a year, thinking maybe I can convince my parents. I really don't need to go to law school. But I did my first year at LBJ. And then I did in fact start law school. And the reason though that I knew it wasn't just saying yes to what my dad wanted me to do. It was actually a keen awareness of power again. And I knew that having a law degree would give me keys to a certain kind of power that especially as an immigrant, watching our own family navigate the immigration system, we're coming now off of September 11th, 2001, when there were random investigations, questionings, interrogations of people who may be from countries that were deemed dangerous. There was so much scrutiny and fear that I knew that getting a law degree, even if I wasn't certain I was going to be a lawyer, a practicing lawyer, that it would give me access to a certain kind of protection if I ever needed to help my family and to navigate at same power for other people like us that may need a little extra help, because of other vulnerabilities. So, that's why I went to law school. I'm really glad that I did, even though, obviously I'm not a practicing attorney today. I'm so glad that I did. And I got to learn after law school from a federal judge and that clerkship taught me so much and gives me great deal of respect for lawyers.

- So, while you were at UT Law School, you had a unique opportunity to introduce then young Senator Barack Obama to a crowd of 21,000 people in Texas for a rally in 2007. What was that experience like?

- Yeah, that was an unexpected, another unexpected turn of events. I was part of a group of Austinites grad students. And even at some undergrads that were sort of planning to help organize, what was going to be a very small rally for then Senator Obama. He was a long shot candidate at the time, the primary between he and Senator Clinton, hadn't happened yet. And so he was definitely the, nobody had heard of him candidate. And so we were helping to organize. We were checking out, for those of you who know the university campus, Gregory Gym was going to be the venue originally for the rally, but things started to get bigger. And we thought, I'm trying to remember what the breaking point was. Our friends Ian and Amy and others, could say better what the breaking point was. But at some point it switched and we were going to do it on auditorium shores outside. And I was just helping organize. But the two or three days before the rally, I actually had a bicycle accident. And I had gotten a concussion and had internal bleeding and had like a huge black eye. And while I was in the actually waiting room at the hospital is when I got the call from the big organizers in charge. Like, we'd like you to be the one to introduce him at the rally in 48 hours, will you do it? And I couldn't decide whether or not to tell them that I had a huge black eye, but I obviously wanted to take the opportunity. So, I didn't tell them right away. And I just said, yes, but I eventually said, I let them know I had a black eye and I said can I wear sunglasses? And they said, okay. Well, we get there that day. And it is now you may remember cause you were there, but it's drizzling rain, there's nobody that needs to wear sunglasses, but I wore them anyway, 'cause I was hiding a big black eye, but I think the reason they wanted me to do it, was some of the issues I was working on at that very moment were very emblematic of the things that then Senator Obama cared about. I had helped volunteer extensively with folks who had been evacuated during Katrina. And so I got to speak about that experience and I had represented as a student attorney, immigrants who had been detained in Hutto Detention Center, north of Austin and helped seek asylum and temporary release for some immigrant detainees. So, I got to speak a little bit about that, as well as help pump the crowd up. And it was an amazing experience. And I still, my parents think I like can pick up the phone and call President Obama. They think I know him closely, but I do not.

- So, as you outlined earlier, your early career was dedicated to working with and protecting marginalized communities in areas of climate justice, housing, access to transit, work. And then at some point you made a decision to leave the nonprofit sector and to join one of the largest corporations in the world, Google. And we've talked about this before. Can you talk about the difference of doing the kind of work that you do and obviously you don't work for Google anymore. You're at Indeed, but you're still working for a private corporation, doing the kind of work that you've always been doing. So, what is the transition like and what is the difference between doing this work in the non-profit sector versus as part of a corporation?

- Yeah, I think I underestimated, how long the transition would take for me to feel very comfortable. Going from a non-profit sort of civil rights law firm, working on those issues to Google who actually my work had been in the Bay Area and a lot of the issues I was working on, like affordable housing and displacement, were directly being negatively impacted, by large tech companies like Google. And so I knew never would've imagined in a million years that I would then turn around and go work for Google. But I moved back to Austin and life happens and I had gotten this opportunity and in my head there were two ways it could go. One, I might just go in and learn more about how Google works, so that I would be a more effective advocate on the outside holding companies like that accountable. Or I would go in and actually be able to make enough of an incremental difference that it would actually be quite similar to what you do when you're pushing from the outside and you get some incremental change. So, those were the two scenarios in my mind and it was some mix of both, but it really, it took me a lot longer to accept for myself that I had crossed over. And I think, I was really hard on myself to be quite honest for making that transition in a way that I can finally say I've graduated from that feeling, but it took me a long time, what I can see in hindsight is that I have always had to play a bridge role in so any of the things I've done in life, just like for my parents, I was a little bit of a bridge to the utility company on the phone or bridging cultures or always feeling a little like the in between or what some people think of as like that interloper space. And in coming to the corporate sector, I think I just, there's a little bit of a superpower that I've decided to build, which is like how do you bridge? How do you be the ambassador to those two worlds and do both of them justice and bring out the best of them.

- Yeah, so we were talking about this a little last week and it was really interesting for me, a turning point handful of years back, I was talking to someone who was a climate researcher, an activist who ended up taking a job at McDonald's and faced actually a lot of criticism from other people that they worked with in the sustainability sector. And their perspective was that if they could move the needle, by even a half a percent at McDonald's, that they could have a much bigger, real practical impact on the world. But sometimes I think it does maybe feel like, you're an activist from the inside as well. And well, so being part of the technology sector now, as you have for a while, there has been certainly a pretty significant shift in public perception over the last handful of years. Can you talk a little bit, about how you think out the responsibility that tech companies have when it comes to the impact on the communities they serve?

- Yeah. I think to no one's surprise. I think the responsibility is huge. I think it's real and I think it's more than about PR. And so the very first example that comes to mind, actually is back when I was first making this crossover, when I was in the advocacy sector in the Bay Area, there was this phenomenon happening where for the first time a lot of tech companies, were creating their own bus lines to run from the city of San Francisco to the South Bay, where a lot of the headquarters for companies like Yahoo and Google were and the Google buses would actually literally pull over and get in the way of the city buses, so you had these tech workers who had the luxury of getting their own bus to sit on this wifi, air conditioned ride for an hour south, that was displacing the ability of people that at the time we called transit reliant. So, these are people who they absolutely need to ride the city bus to get to their jobs. And in many cases, they need to switch bus lines three times to get to their jobs. And they're in a job that if you're 30 minutes late, you may very well lose your job. And so here was sort of like a Google bus disrupting that flow for their own interests. And I say all this to say there was sort of a, I think a really legitimate reason for some of the backlash is just like thoughtlessness, about how does, how do my actions as a company affect the community of which we are a part, for my neighbors, for the people who work at my kids' school, whatever it may be. And so I think the responsibility is huge. To Google's credit, there was some work. I actually was very critical of things like that in my interview and to their credit, they still hired me. And they took on partnerships that I actually led to like free youth transit passes, they corrected those actions of getting in the way of the city buses and the Muni lines. But all that to say that the responsibility is huge. I think it's real. I think it's okay if it's messy, but I think it's got to be from a place of one wanting to follow the lead of the people who are directly being, are experiencing the hardship or being impacted, rather than just making sure you get the glossy headline.

- Let's talk a little bit about Indeed in the work that you do here. Back in February, we announced a $10 million investment to launch a new program called Essentials to Work, which is focused on helping struggling job seekers in the US to get access to the things that they need, technology, transportation and importantly, criminal record clearance services. Can you talk a little bit about Essentials to Work and what it is that you hope to achieve?

- Sure. Ever since I started talking to Indeed, about coming to work here, I've been really impressed by the commitment to making sure we are supporting job seekers who face barriers, forming partnerships, like the one that you all have long worked on with Goodwill, especially in that stage where job seekers are trying to apply for a job or create a resume or get through the interview process. And that has always stuck with me that has been really an authentic part of Indeed's commitment. But what struck me too, is that when you wanted to go deeper to reach even more job seekers, to even begin to help with the job seeking process, you quickly real realize that there are some people who are fighting at a much earlier stage in the process, than even that Indeed applied button, right? And so we've got lots of folks who, they wanted to take part in the trainings, we were giving through Goodwill. They didn't have a computer, they didn't have an internet connection and there was COVID. So, they couldn't come in person or if they did want to come in person, there wasn't reliable transportation to get there. So, that was sort of the inspiration for why did we need to invest in maybe one ripple or one degree out from the job seeking process? And then of course with record clearing services, we know that the number of people impacted, by our criminal legal system and the rates of incarceration, one in three Americans has a criminal record. And although we have made progress on ensuring folks have a fair chance at being hired, there's still a long, long, long way to go. And so I was really excited that we had this opportunity to invest in some of the nonprofit organizations, but also explore some tech-based partnerships that might enable us to connect job seekers to record clearing services, so that they had an even better shot when they were looking for a job. And this program has already really, I would say lit a fire under some partnerships that we had been thinking about for a long time, but the minute we said, we've got some computer devices and mobile hotspots, some partners that we've been thinking about working with, they said we need a hundred of those devices right now. And then we can learn from the job seekers who are trying to use Indeed for the first time. So, that in the long run, the newer job seekers that are now getting to use our platform, are going to have a very different experience that we should learn from. So, we can improve our product and our platform. So, that in 10 years, we're serving many, many, many more job seekers, facing barriers.

- So, this program is just launched. This the first phase of what we hope is, will grow into something much bigger. Can you talk a little bit about what the long term vision for Essentials for Work is?

- I think if it goes well, I think it's something different, than us just philanthropically giving out some devices and some Lyft ride-shares or even some legal services. It's actually about us learning, so that one day we would know better, does it serve job seekers and frankly our clients to create part, make Indeed more robust in a 360 degree way for job seekers when come on to our platform? Could we help them see, what their background check might look like, before they apply and before they have to wait and cross their fingers, that their background check comes back correctly for the employer they're applying with, could we help offer that service? If it turns out they do have a criminal record that needs to be cleared? Could we help refer them to a solution that may be quick in some cases may not be, but we can help direct folks. If you can't do an online interview in hiring platform, could we connect you to a Lyft ride, right on our platform to get to your interview or frankly your first few weeks of the job, because really we hope you're using our hiring platform. So, the vision there is what if our platform, became an even more useful hub than it already is.

- In your role, we're thinking and acting locally, but also very much globally. One of the things that you've spent, quite a bit of time on recently is with the crisis in Ukraine right now, helping coordinate Indeed's support for Ukrainian refugees, who as they're resettling one of the first is that they need housing and they need work. And so you have been really helping, kind of coordinate across a variety of different teams and locations, how we're approaching that? Can you talk a little bit, about what you've been trying to do in that experience?

- Yes and coordinate is a great word, because there are people in every office of Indeed working really hard on this. We have a working group called Program Sunflower with support from OSO, but really a lot of folks are working really hard on this. So, I want to make sure it's clear that I'm simply trying to be a connection point across that hard work. But just as you said, I think there's a lot of work to be done. And what we found in those few days of the invasion and the aftermath of it, obviously the senior leadership team, made some very big decisions around, what kind of message of solidarity to post for people all over the world to see, navigating very complicated sanctions that ultimately add to the taking down of the Russian Indeed site. But in the days that have followed, we have been actively talking with humanitarian organizations and even government officials that are seeking to serve refugees impacted. And obviously the biggest ask is just financial. Like they know what to do in many cases, they just need the money to make sure, they're able to provide the support, but right in the medium term after that, as you said as we enter that resettlement phase, we do have a critical role to play in helping people connect to employment. So, whether it's ensuring that the Ukrainian language is available on sites beyond in Poland and beyond, quite frankly throughout the EU, because we'll have upwards of 2 million refugees who will have artwork authorization across the EU and then also temporary protected status in the United States, have work authorization in Canada. So, there's a huge role we can play to make sure we are not only helping job seekers, but we're helping employers navigate this legal landscape that's quickly shifting and incentivize people to hire refugees. One note I want to make in all of this work, which will continue is that our intention here is we had already begun actually some deeper investment in support of refugees affected by the War in Afghanistan and the evacuation even before the Ukraine situation. And now with this invasion and the crisis, we see that supporting refugees is really a long game and it's something Indeed wants to build, as one of its core capacities, because employment is such a critical part of resettlement. And so we want to not only raise the standard of what we can do for Ukrainian refugees, but then really ensure that we are making all of those services available for people who are being displaced, by conflicts all over the world. And that's not going to be easy, because there are people being impacted every day, but we think it's important.

- You have a lot of different things that you're doing here at Indeed and you have a family and you still also find time to serve on a number of boards, including as mentioned before HousingWorks Austin and the Workers Defense Project. Can you talk about what it means to continue to be doing that work, while you're also doing all of these other things?

- Sure. Yeah, I think serving on the boards of those organizations is a little bit of just the extension of the work that I used to do, before I worked in the private sector. And so again, being that bridge, has been such an important part of how I see myself, as adding value and being useful. And I think about, it's actually quite self-interested. I mean, when I think about affordable housing, I think about the affordable housing that my family benefited from when we first moved to United States that allowed us to live right in the center of town and to access things like buses and libraries and other services. That made all the difference for a family that was just learning to navigate a new country, a new language. If we had been unable to live in the thick of such an opportunity rich area, I'm not quite sure, I'm sure we would've been okay, but I don't think we would've been doing as well as we are today. And so Housing Works Austin is driven to really making sure there's all kinds of housing for all kinds of people in all parts of town to give everyone the options that sometimes it feels like only the most affluent people have. And with Workers Defense Project, that's an organization that focuses on immigrant workers rights, especially in the construction industry, where in a place like Texas, if you're undocumented or even if you're documented, you're not always as protected as you should be when it comes to very hazardous work sites, very hot weather, rest breaks aren't always enforced. And so I think again about my parents and the power dynamic that worked against them when they moved to the United States, because English wasn't their first language and because their work authorizations and their visas and all of that were at times more tenuous, than we would like and they weren't treated the way they should have been. They just weren't. I mean, I have many, many, many visceral memories of that. And so organizations like that, I mean, they're really just me being self-interested in wanting to make sure I'm protecting other families that are like my own and ones that are coming to Austin And, I want to make sure they have a good shot at success. And I really like the people that I get to work with through them. And so it fills my cup and it doesn't feel like it's taking away from my work.

- Well, so that's a good transition, than to doing this kind of work and having a number of people who are very close to me who have been doing a variety of advocacy work for a very, very long time. It's extraordinarily draining work and it's difficult. And progress is slow if even progress in some cases, how do you keep your cup filled and keep your energy and keep suiting up and showing up every day?

- I have not always been good at it. In fact, in 2020, I kind of crashed and burned and I had to take three months of leave. And I got to take I should say, three months of leave to recenter, be with my children whose schools were closed, but also to take care of my health, because I burned out in every way possible. And it was only from sort of reemerging, because I had the privilege of that leave, that I was able to understand sort of what happens when you don't put up some boundaries and you don't ensure that your cup is being filled. I think I just sew through myself into my work, but then also the kids at home and everything just, the bottom emptied out. And so I want to say it's not easy and if you've burned out or you feel like you're about to listen to your body, because my body made it so that I couldn't ignore it. And I wish I had caught it a little bit earlier, but again having some time to step away and come back, I had sort of refilled my cup. And now I'm just much more protective of situations and dynamics that are actually, the net-net is draining rather than filling. And if that's starting to happen, I probably don't want to stick around.

- Well, as we wind up our time here, I could keep talking for a very long time, but I just want to come back to the word community, which is where you have sort of immersed yourself and dedicated so much of your life too. And in the context of the last couple of years, through the pandemic, we've had an opportunity I guess to rethink, how we are all connected. And as we had a discussion earlier in "Here to Help," just a few weeks back with Dr. Chela White-Ramsey One of the things that she said is, people keep talking about we're all in the same boat and she's like, "Well, we're all on the same ocean. "We're not necessarily all in the same boat." And so while we've had this opportunity to think about that and to see what that interconnection looks like, is there anything about the word or the idea of community that has evolved for you, throughout this experience?

- No, I think in many ways it brought home what I always thought and it reminded me that I do know something. That not everything is learned from the outside, that some things you just know. And for me, I mentioned you a lot about how my parents grew up, like raised us in this setting of like, this group housing, graduate student housing, a lot of other immigrants, a lot of shared resources and knowledge and which bus line did you take to go get your, this taken care of or this doctor's appointment? Can you watch my kid, like a lot of just like community living is how we grew up and there was nothing fancy about it, but something about bringing it together, made it so much stronger, than it would've been had people had to just fend for themselves. And I think something about the pandemic has only confirmed and validated that like, if we can, I mean, we had to do the part, that we were lucky enough to have a part that we could work with with our children. And it felt so reminiscent of that idea of like, we were just so much stronger if we had some people we could trust to ask the stupid questions, to get the inside knowledge, just make things more accessible. The pandemic only I guess affirmed my intuition, about community all along.

- Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that and for joining me today, but really thank you so much for everything that you do for Indeed and for the world. And it was really just such a pleasure to get to hear your experiences and your thoughts and share it with everyone else here today.

- Thank you, Chris.