Battling impostor syndrome to get back in touch with your heritage

September 20, 2021

National Hispanic Heritage Month runs from September 15 to October 15, and during this period, we recognize the presence and influence of the Latinx culture in our society.

In this episode of Here to Help, Indeed CEO Chris Hyams is joined by Adrienne Smith, Global Training Strategist and co-chair of Latinx in Tech at Indeed. Adrienne will discuss her experiences growing up in Georgia and battling imposter syndrome to get back in touch with her heritage. She also speaks to the importance of recognizing the multiplicity of Us/Them dichotomies.

- Hello and welcome everyone. I am Chris Hyams CEO of Indeed and welcome to the next episode of Here to Help. This is our look at how Indeed has been navigating the global impact of COVID 19. Today is September 13th. We are on day 559 of global work from home. And this week marks the beginning of Hispanic heritage month here in the US. This month honors the cultures and contributions of Hispanic and Latinx Americans. As we celebrate heritage rooted in all Latin American countries. For those of you wondering why the celebration begins in the middle rather than the start of September, it's because it coincides with national independence days in several Latin American countries. And during this month and throughout the year, Indeed and our partners share history, heritage and the accomplishments of Hispanic and Latinx Americans of past and present. Before we get started, I'd like to offer a brief trigger warning, our discussion today we'll reference racism, xenophobia, miscarriage, and other topics that may be triggering to some. My guest today is Adrienne Smith, who is the Co-Chair of Indeed's Latinx In Tech Inclusion Resource Group or IRG and is a Global Learning and Development Strategist here at Indeed. Adrienne, thank you so much for joining me today.

- Hi Chris, thank you for having me.

- Let's start where we always start these conversations by checking in. How are you doing today, right now?

- Right now, I feel bigger than I think my physical body is giving the space for. I am excited. I am honored to be here and I look forward to sharing my story and my culture and so much with everyone here. So I'm very excited right now in this moment.

- Well, I am excited also for the conversation here. And this month as I said upfront is the start of Hispanic heritage month. Can you talk a little bit about what this month represents to you and why it's important?

- Of course, yeah. This is a time for us to celebrate and recognize the presence and the influence of Latinx culture on our society. It really does provide us the opportunity to showcase the pride that we have for our culture and celebrate the many accomplishments and contributions made by those that came before us. There's an abundance of Latinx influence and it's through food and art and clothing and music and dance and all these customs and influence are becoming so incredibly visible. So it's really important that people appreciate and respect and acknowledge the origins of these traditions. Hispanic for me, that means passion, joy, charisma, lots of flavor and also a lot of hardwork. So happy Hispanic heritage month. Latinx In Tech. We are so excited to share our culture with you. We have some incredible events lined up this upcoming month and so we're so excited. One of the amazing events that's kicking off this week is Jose Hernandez and his path to NASA. He's our keynote speaker. And so we also have some amazing panels representing Brazil and Mexico, as well as many brave spaces and some many collaborations with other IRGs. So we're very excited to celebrate with you and share our culture with you.

- So we have a lot to cover today. I'd like to back up a little bit and start by talking about your background. So you grew up in a family with parents from different backgrounds and cultures. Can you talk a little bit about your experience growing up?

- So my mom was born in El Salvador and she was raised in Costa Rica and my dad was born in Illinois and he's an all-American blonde hair, blue eyes, really tall and my mom is, I look a lot like my mom. So it was, you know, definitely growing up I had two very different cultures and my mom, you know, she, I was born and raised in Georgia and so I, you know, it was definitely an experience for me growing up where my mom wanted to embrace my, you know, Latinx, my, you know, Hispanic culture, but also too, she didn't want me to stand out too much and she wanted make sure my English was as perfect as it could be. I think just to maybe prevent some of the trials and obstacles that she had to endure in her journey. And so I did, I mean, growing up in Georgia, it's the south and as you can imagine, you know, I did experience kind of being othered really early in my life. One of the extinct experiences that maybe really shaped me was when I was really little, I was going into kindergarten, I was getting on the bus for my first day of school and I was told by some kids at the front of the bus to go sit in the back of the bus 'cause that's where black people should go sit. And I remember saying, okay, well, I mean, I don't know, I know I'm not black but I mean, I'm down to go sit at the back of the bus because to be honest, when you go over the speed bumps, you get the best bump, right? So I actually didn't mind sitting back there, but I think that was kind of my first realization that, am I different? You know, what's different about me? Am I, you know, clearly I'm not white enough, but my dad is blonde hair and blue eyes and so I just didn't, you know, I never felt really like, I guess not right enough or maybe not Latina enough in other situations. And so it was that first situation of kind of being othered and it was, you know, it's also, you know, present on the side of growing up with, on my mom's side of the family where I was oftentimes, you know, called Gringo or, you know, white girl, you know, because growing up in Georgia, I maybe had a little bit of a Southern accent. I've tried to kind of leave that, but maybe if I have a beer with you, it may come out. But yeah, it was always just kind of this, I was never enough on either side. And so I think that was something that I really struggled with my whole life, right? It was a matter of really always trying to kind of fit in, but I didn't really find that until later, which you'll hear about.

- So I know when we spoke a few years back, I was out visiting in Scottsdale where you're based and I remember you telling me stories about basically learning to hustle from your dad. And can you talk a little bit about that and how that serves you today?

- Yeah, for sure, yes, okay. So my dad was an entrepreneur but sales was everything. There was a huge sign behind his desk and I always admired his desk 'cause he had this huge chair and this like, very grand desk and I was like, man, I would love to like, be like this one day and have a desk like this. And I remember just sitting there playing Oregon Trail throwback, anyone that ever played that, I would sit there playing Oregon Trail on his computer and just feeling very powerful. And there was a sign behind his desk that said, "Action gets reaction." And so to say that a hustle was ingrained in me very early in my life is an understatement. So my dad was an entrepreneur. He owned a shop called Adrienne's Fashion Accessories and it was named after me, which was really cool to see my name. We had a bunch of white vans and on those white vans it would say, Adrienne's really big and pink 'cause I got to pick all the coloring, which was also cool. So I picked like pink and teal and purple 'cause I was very girly and we would go to flea markets and we would sell women's fashion, purses and scrunchies and shirts and jewelry, fashion jewelry. And so my dad, whenever I would go with him to the flea market, he would get out of chicken box, which I also looked up the word chicken box and I don't know if that's a real thing, but it's a box with a lid and he would, you know, stand it up vertically and kind of flip it over and so I would have like a little table and he said, pick out whatever items that you would like from my table and anything that you sell, you get to keep the money for. And I was like, all right, let's do it. And so I filled up my chicken box with all different items, scrunchies and purses, really anything I could fit. And that is when I learned of just walking up to people and saying, "Hey, you should have, you know, I think your hair needs a scrunchie. This one's so pretty, you should try it." And I would just go and sell anything and everything and my dad basically said he had to kind of stop me from like refilling my chicken box 'cause he wasn't making the money, I was. And what was motivating to me was, there was this woman across from us who would make custom dollhouse furniture and I had the most beautiful dollhouse growing up. And so I was so excited cause I got to take my earnings and she would make, hand-make different items. So I got like a dining table and chairs for my dollhouse. And so I think that is when I really learned like, one, I love to sell, but also too like, it's nice to have my own money 'cause I can buy all the dollhouse furniture that I want. So that was an incredible experience for me but I have to also shout out to my mom because my mom is also in sales and she's incredible at it and so anytime we drove into our garage, the entire garage was just covered in her sales awards. And so I don't think I could have escaped it. It was coming at me from every angle, but yes, hustle was definitely ingrained in me very early in my childhood.

- So you have this strong entrepreneurial grounding and this urge for hustle and to sell. And then you go to university and study anthropology. So how did that happen?

- Well, I actually failed chemistry in high school and the teacher was not really motivating and so I said, you know what? To kind of reshape this chapter in my high school career, I'm going to become a chemistry major. And so I went to college as a chemistry major and I did great until I got to organic chemistry and I was sitting in like the 4th row and I was like, oh man, here we go. 'Cause this is where I got tripped up a little bit in high school. It was the balancing of the equations. And so I went to my advisor and I said, "Well, I don't know if this is where I should be." And they said okay and I said, I'm really good at people and talking, I like to write and so they recommended that I maybe look into psychology. So I did and I ended up loving the social sciences, but as an extracurricular elective, I took an anthropology course. And I remember walking into the classroom. It was very, very small, it was probably at most 25 people and I'm just sitting there and to be honest, I'm like, I don't even know what anthropology is, like we're going to probably look at dinosaur bones or dig through some dirt, not really sure what to expect here. And this incredible person walks into the classroom and sits down on a chair in the middle of the room. And he had his button on his shirt unbuttoned and some chest here kind of out and visible. And so all of us in the room are kind of looking at him like, who is this guy? With his chest hair kind of everywhere, he looks kind of weird and everyone's like drawing all these conclusions about him and what he's going to be like. And this is going to be like a very weird ride, I'm sure. And he sat there honestly for five minutes in silence and didn't say a word. And so after that long five minutes, he stood up and he said, "Isn't it incredible, the amount of power and the amount of conclusions that you are all are drawing just from a button?" And my jaw hit the floor And I was like, oh man, I felt like a part of my brain was opened. And Dr. Richard, if you're watching this, I adore you. He right in that moment really made me realize like, how we place emphasis on things that really don't matter and they shouldn't define how we perceive somebody and why just having one button unbuttoned and a little chest hair showing made me think that this man was kooky and weird and everything else when really, he was honestly one of the most influential people of my entire life. So that was a moment where I said, if this is what anthropology is, I'm in 'cause I love all of this. And he really focused a lot on disenchantment and like, you know, as a kid, we're so enchanted and the world's so magical and then as we kind of go through life where we become disenchanted and he really focused with us on like how to become a chanted again and to really challenge like where we get our values from and where our perceptions are coming in. So it was an incredible experience.

- So you graduated college, you began your career in sales. You've been with Indeed now for over eight years in a variety of roles. Can you talk a little bit about the transition from sales to learning and development?

- Absolutely, so I was, you know, honestly I thought I was maybe destined for retail at a point in my life in college. My mom was in retail and that's what I saw kind of growing up and you know, my dad had a lot of success when I was really young and then struggled a lot as I got older. And so I was like, you know, maybe this is it. You know, maybe I'm destined for retail. So I worked at AT&T and you know, made great money for a college kid and you know, it was definitely, you know, I enjoyed the work, but I didn't really see more I guess, I didn't know what else was out there. One thing that really did change in my career was when I started at AT&T, I had my first view at sales training. And so I will never forget her name's Tammy Cooley. And she was ended up actually being my mentor as I worked through at AT&T but she was the most energetic, motivational, empowering person and when you left her classroom, you were like, yeah, I can do this. Like, no question, like just put me on the floor, I'm ready. And that was when I saw her work I said, at the end of training actually approached her and said, "I want your job." And she said, "You do?" And I said, "Yeah." And she goes, "Okay, I'll help you get it." And that was huge. And so she believed in me and she helped me get me really networked in the learning and development side of AT&T and I was able to do job shadows and kind of learn what that world was like. And I think what's so interesting is you're forced to like choose your career when you're 18 in a way, right? Like you're going to college and everyone's putting all this pressure on you like, what's your major going to be? And I mean, it's like my gosh, I'm 18 and I don't know. I don't even know what's out there. And no one when you're 18 tells you like, "Hey, learning and enablement, great gig, you should check it out, right? It just, it doesn't happen. You know, you hear, oh, you could be an attorney, a doctor, a lawyer, go work at a corporation. And so that, for me to see that for the first time and I was well out of, you know, out of my, out of college and seeing that career and I was like, wow, this is something I'd really love to do. I'd love to help people and impact people and be their first impression. And so that is really where my kind of life shifted. I ended up moving out to San Francisco and I applied for my job at Indeed in sales and in my interview, Brendan Pomeroy hired me and I said to him, I said, "I want to be a trainer," and he said, "Unfortunately, we don't have any training roles open." And I said, "That's okay, I can learn how to sell the product and I'm sure that'll help me in learning and development." And he said, okay and so I hustled in sales and when the opportunity arose, Brendan Pomeroy and my old boss, Caroline Koffee, they were behind me and they helped me get to my dream job. I had to interview with Joseph Loretta. That was scary, Joe. So, but yeah, it was a great experience and I haven't looked back.

- So in addition to your day job, which is extremely challenging and, you know, keeps you very busy, you are also a very active member of our inclusion resource groups and a leader that Co-Chair of our Latinx and tech group. What's the motivation to keep you involved in so many things?

- So I think earlier when I was mentioning, you know, I was kind of caught between two cultures, right? Like this very American, you know, you're white and that's it. And then my mom who was trying to instill, you know, the Latin culture but also do it, you know, carefully knowing I was, you know, growing up in Georgia, I never really had a place where I felt safe to explore my Latinx heritage and this is where I had first felt safe and I moved to Scottsdale. I didn't really know what IRGs were and I was, I heard about it and I was like, wow, maybe I'll go to like a meeting. And I did, I went to one meeting and they said, you should open up the chapter for Scottsdale. And I said, "All right, yeah, let's do it, challenge accepted." And of course in the entire way fighting imposter syndrome, right? Because I am, I don't speak Spanish. I, you know, was basically brought up, you know, very white and so I was like, oh my gosh, like, who am I to lead Latinx In Tech, right? And so that imposter syndrome was very, very in my ear often. But also to what was in my ears, there's other people like me, I guarantee it. And there's other people that are feeling the same way I feel and representation matters. And when I started getting a glimpse of our culture and really like feeling like I could embrace it for the first time, I was stuck. I was like, this is awesome. I mean, the music, the food, how multifaceted the Latinx culture is. I mean, it's just beautiful like the different cultures and what they're bringing all within this one grouping that we call like Latinx In Tech. So I said, you know what we need? To keep bringing representation for this and just makes Indeed a better place to work and so, I mean, I was sold, how could I not get involved? I'll say this to anyone that's watching. If you aren't involved in an IRG, get involved. No matter which one it is or all of them, it's such an incredible opportunity and I can honestly say I'm sitting here today with the CEO of Indeed because of my involvement in Latinx in Tech. I've had the ability to network with so many incredible parts of our business that I would have never got to network with if it was just, you know, my day job in in LND. So get involved and if you don't feel like you belong, you belong. I promise you, you do. That's what it is. It's an inclusion resource group, you are included. So just make the leap and have fun and help out where you can. It's an incredible opportunity, it really is. I'm so thankful.

- So you mentioned imposter syndrome a few times there. That has been a very common theme over the last 61 episodes of Here to Help. Can you talk a little bit more about imposter syndrome and why you think it's, if it's something that people feel like they don't belong, why do so many people feel this way?

- Yeah, for sure. I think sometimes, well, we are our own worst enemies and we're most critical of ourselves and we doubt anything positive or a moment where, that you're presented and you're like, you know, do I even deserve this, right? Like, I wouldn't lie to you if I said, you know, being on this Here To Help today, do I deserve to be here? And you're right, I do. I deserve to be here, right? And we all do and we all need to start embracing the moments that are put in front of us and say yes, more often and do it scared like Stacy said, like, if you're afraid, like do it, do it scared, like get out of your comfort zones. 'Cause that's where growth is, right? Like when you're in your comfort zone, you're stagnant and you're not moving, right? But when you're uncomfortable, you're growing, you're learning and you're challenging parts of yourself. So show up authentically whatever that is. And I'm not saying that's easy. 'Cause I struggle with that every single day, but show up authentically. It also too like shout out to all the middle management out there, like having a boss that encourages you to show up authentically, right? I think that is so incredibly important. Leaders, you have such an incredible platform and a powerful spot to be where you can advocate for others and encourage them to show up authentically. So if you aren't or if you feel like you could do that a little bit better, do it, right? Get uncomfortable yourself. We need allies and diversity matters and not just diversity of color or culture, it's diversity of thought and mindset. And you know, I have an incredible manager right now, Jamie Kraus who encourages me. She encourages me every single day and it's oh, I'm so grateful for her. And she told me, just from the caterpillar that their life was over, it became a butterfly. And I think that's really important because kindness is important 'cause you don't know what people are struggling with underneath and everybody's battling something. And so it's not easy to be kind because we have to put, we have, I'm glad I put tissues over here, but it's not easy to be kind because we have to kind of try to understand people that maybe aren't in, they're different than us, right? It's I think about, for example, like I'm a mom and I have a beautiful little girl named Aribelle and I find myself saying, oh, you know, I feel like maybe this person will understand because they have a kid. Or if Aribel pops into my Zoom, you know, I'm like, oh, well, you know, they have children, they'll get it. But it shouldn't be like that, right? Like we should really make an effort to try to understand people that are different than us and that everyone's got something going on. And so just try to like show love and like treat people with respect and it'll really make the world a better place. And if you don't think you can make an impact, that's a pretty damn big impact to make somebody feel better in their day. So sorry, I'm like emotional, but I think it's incredibly important.

- So you mentioned the word platform. So everyone's got a platform. They might be different size or shape but how do you use your platform and your voice at work?

- Yeah, women's rights, you know, parents rights. Like I think about my daughter, that's something like that shifted in my life. Like having a daughter and wanting the world to be better for her when she gets into the workforce, right? And I'll say this, like, if you truly believe in something, speak up about it, you know and speak out about it. Be the change, right? Like that you want to see in the world and you can make changes. Like you just, be thoughtful about it and be professional about it and do your research and show up prepared. But don't be afraid to use your voice. It's the best, most amazing gift that we've been given is our voice and so much in my Latin culture, right? Like my mom would tell me like, "Don't shake the boat," like, "Be thankful for your job, right?" Like, don't, you know, don't, when you get a job offer, like, don't negotiate, you're lucky to have this role. And so it's, I'm breaking these like cycles because like, no, like negotiate, stand up for yourself. If you feel like you deserve more like speak up. But also too, like if you see an opportunity within this amazing organization for it to be better, like do whatever it takes to get there. And I've been able to do that with a couple of benefits, you know, being added to our insurance policies, you know, home birth coverage, like, hello, yes, like we have it now, but we're just getting started. Like there's so much more that we want to advocate for and I know that Johnny Martinez, I know that you are going to help us get there. And also too, you know, like I think we need to normalize some of the things that are happening to women and you know, things that we are so taboo to talk about. You know, I think about Ms. Pottlitzer in 5th grade, she was incredible and she would say to us, she's like, "Oh, I'm going through menopause." And she would like open up her back door of the trailer in this and she would just like fan it and she would stand out there and she would just be like, wait, right? And all of us were just like, yeah, it's normal. Like we didn't have any taboo or anything around this. We were just like just Ms. Pottlitzer. And we all knew what menopause was, right? Not because of Ms. Pottlitzer, but we didn't associate it with like, oh, it's something to be shameful of. It's like, no, no, no. Like everyone's going through different stages in life. We are human. So we need to be comfortable talking about the things that are happening to us, whether it be infertility, whether it be miscarriages, like we shouldn't have to go through those moments alone. Like we need to know that it's normal and we need to talk about it and so it's huge, this issue is so big for me and it's like so close to my heart but, we just need to normalize some of the things that are taboo in conversation.

- So in addition to everything else going on in the last year and a half in the world and at work, you also, as you mentioned, became a mom for the first time during the pandemic, can you talk about the experience of becoming a mom in the middle of a global pandemic?

- It's been tough. I think I can speak on, you know, it's been lonely, right? I was pregnant during the pandemic, so it was like, you know, thinking back, like no one got to see my bump or no one got to rub my belly, even though I don't know if I'd want them to, but still like no one tried. Cause I didn't really, you know, I didn't go anywhere. My best friends never got to see me pregnant outside of being on Zoom or FaceTime. Having a baby, you know, I think about all the moms that had to leave her alone and couldn't even have doulas or their husbands or their wives or whoever in the room having to wear masks. So I put like there's so much, right? And so I, and not only that, but then having this beautiful baby and then being limited on what you can do and who you can have over and so many things. And so what I'll say is like acknowledge the experiences. Don't undermine what you're feeling. If you don't, you know, there's so much pressure like, not enough, don't know, too much greens, too much. Don't, you know, don't feed him that. Like, don't do that, right? And it's like, do whatever you, you're doing a good job. You're you're doing an amazing job, mom and dad, right? And I think we're really hard on ourselves and so just take time for yourself as hard as it is and always, you know, charge your own batteries. I think I always think of the airplane analogy, right? Like put on your own mask before you can put on the mask of another, because you have to be breathing yourself to help others. And I think that's incredibly important as a mom to remember, but it's not easy, not easy at all and I, you know, think about my daughter and all of our kids that are pandemic babies and they're so used to seeing people in masks and the lack of the smiles, right? Like they see people's expression through their eyes, but they don't see their smiles. And my daughter has never seen a pediatrician smile at her, You never seen many people smile at her but kids are resilient so and so are we. So we're doing a good job. And I think we just need to always pat ourselves on the back and realize like we're doing really hard work and we should be proud of ourselves so.

- Thank you for that. Let's talk a little bit about what's been going on in the last 18 months and in particular how the pandemic has affected the Latinx community.

- Yeah. So Latinas, were leaving especially towards the start of the pandemic, but still higher than any other, you know, race or gender is they're leaving the workforce faster at a faster rate. And this is due to lack of affordable childcare, kind of getting pushed into these assumed like gender roles, right? And you know, it's like, I think of myself, you know, as a pioneer and many of us in roles at organizations like Indeed and you know, across all the amazing, you know, companies out there, we're breaking these family cycles of these low income, like service roles and we are really movers and shakers. And the fact that Latinas are leaving the workforce at that incredibly fast rate is really unfortunate, right? And so this is where, you know, I come back to almost like what I was just speaking of, we need, like help make it easier for us to be those pioneers, right? And it's the issues that matter to women, right? And I think, you know, I challenge organizations and I know this is going to be released, you know, beyond Indeed, right? And so I challenge organizations out there to think about, you know, what are you doing to make, you know, childcare and just being a mom and dad, right? Like what are you doing to make that easier, right? And so much has happened in this past year and you know, Black Lives Matter movement and what, you know, has happened to our, this, you know, our Asian-American. Hate that's just been radiating, you know, like this is, it's been exhausting, right? So I think it's just a matter of like, how can we like help lift each other? How can companies be better to like help break cycles and encourage individuals that have been suppressed for so long, like stand up and stay in their roles and drive incredible growth and success in these companies because you better believe like, diverse companies grow faster and are more innovative and produce amazing results and so we do have to think like beyond just like the basics that we've been operating under for so long and think about like, what really is going to make an impact in the workforce. So yeah, I think that's been, it's been tough, right? I think it's been tough for everybody, but again, like kindness, right? Like it's rooted in kindness. We have to like take care of each other. We are one so.

- And so I know we talked about this before, but at the root of a lot of these issues is this us versus them mentality and that this feeling of zero-sum game and that everything is a competition and in our work, in our IRGs, a lot of the focus isn't in exploring intersectionality and the connection between people. Can you talk a little bit about this us versus them mentality and what we can do to maybe lessen it?

- You know, this exists a lot in the Latinx community, the us versus them and I think it's something that, you know, we definitely need to talk about 'cause I think it does leave a lot of space of, you know, I'm not this enough, I'm not that enough, right? And we are going to have a brave space coming up that's titled, "You're Not Blank Enough," but it's very polarizing within our own community, right? I think back to when we were in office and I was kicking off for HHM and I stopped at a to pick up on pan dulces for Hispanic heritage month and I was in line and it got to my turn and I don't speak Spanish. So I started kind of asking questions in English and they just skipped over me and I sat there and I was like, oh man, right? Like and I've never felt like more excluded. I was like, oh, like it hurt, right? Just to, to feel rejected. And so I finally got my, you know, pan dulces and on my drive home or drive to the office. I was thinking to myself, it's ironic that I'm sitting here leading an IRG and to advocate for Hispanic heritage month and for the Latinx culture yet I was just completely rejected by my own culture. And I said, but this is what I'm doing it for. Like, that's why I'm here. Hello, like, that was a moment where I was like, yup, light bulb. Like, that's why I'm here. It shouldn't be that, right? The us versus them. And I think it comes around, you know, us being more aware of like, almost like the button, right? When we think about Dr. Richards and the button, like how much emphasis we place on things that don't matter, like, right? Like we draw so many conclusions and we have so many biases that derive from an animate, oftentimes like things. And it's just an opportunity for us to really challenge ourselves, to think about why we're taking the perspective we're taking and it doesn't need to be this us versus them.

- You know, we were talking about this a little last week when we were prepping for the conversation today and I think back to LaFond Davis, who's currently our group Vice President for ESG at Indeed, but we originally hired her as the VP of Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging and when she first introduced herself to Indeed, she really brought this, the word inclusion along with, you know, diversity, sorry, the word belonging along with diversity and inclusion. And one of the things that she she talked about was sort of, you know, the opposite of that is exclusion and that regardless of where you come from, everyone has had an experience of feeling excluded at some point or another and that, that ultimately is the thing that actually ties us together and so, you know, we can easily fall into this, us versus them false feeling, but really by talking about our experiences and where we're coming from, that is the sort of the glue that binds us together. You know, as we're starting to wrap up here, you know, one thing that I'm interested in, we always sort of want to take a step back at the end of these conversations and sort of look towards the future. And I know that given your interest in and your background in anthropology, what are your thoughts about the pandemic and what kind of impact it might have on society in the years to come?

- I definitely remain optimistic. There's been like, I remain optimistic, but also too, I understand there's definitely going to be a big impact and I think we've already seen a huge impact. One thing that really stood out to me, Chris, that you said, I believe with Jessica Jensen was, I hope we don't forget kind of the empathy that we've gained through working from home and seeing that we're not just these numbers that show up for work every day cheaper and we leave it at the door, right? Like it's a matter of, we're all human. And I just, you know, I hope we don't forget like the humanity piece, right? And we bring that into every future engagement, you know, even when we're back to whatever that normal will be. I do think that there's been a big, you know, undermining of science and humanities really facing a number of crisis right now, right? Whether it be, you know, global warming or just many different things and also too, I think about our kids, right? Like I, you know, just seeing them being homeschooled and I think about the social, you know, economic impact that the kids that, you know, whose parents don't have the time or the education to teach them, right? And they're behind schedule like, is this going to result in a potential loss of human capital like down the line? What's going to happen with that generation of children? You know, I think about our institutions, right? Like many of the values that our society was built on, right? Truth, fairness, bipartisanship, right? There's been a lot of hate that's been present. So and I feel like that maybe the pandemic we've, it's been kind of an opportunity to fan the flames of that in that hate and that division and I worry about the small businesses, right? That lost everything and they may not recoup anything. So I, you know, there's a lot that I worry about, but I also have faith in humanity and we need, we need change and we need heart and love and kindness. So you know, show our kids like that's not, this isn't the world, right? And I think about my daughter and I definitely want the world to be kinder when she gets older. And so I'm going to do everything and like I said, if you feel like you can't do anything or your actions don't matter, they do. Every little thing that you do matters. And so it's just a matter of showing up and being brave and standing up for what you believe in so.

- That's beautiful. Maybe one final question. Can you talk a little bit about the legacy that you'd like to leave for your daughter, Aribel?

- Man, I hope that she, my boss can tell you this 'cause I talk about the legacy or like how I want to be a good mom for her all the time. And so Jamie, I know you could probably answer this question better than me but, my boss, but I want her to look back and say, "My mom was brave" and she advocated for women's rights and she wanted to leave the world a better place for me and my future grandkids that I'll have one day. But I think, not being afraid to like break some of the cycles and I hope she sees me, you know, as body positive and I mean, I'm in a completely different body than I was before I got pregnant and had her but I also recognize the journey that my body took and that my body created life. And so when I'm looking in a mirror, instead of saying, oh, you know, like I say, like, "Damn girl, you look good," right? And I think that's important for her as we need to be better examples for our little girls and show that we're beautiful and we're more than a body, we're a brain. And we have so many skills and we need to have a voice and that voice should never be suppressed. So I hope that Aribel, she already has a spitfire, apple doesn't fall far, but I hope that she feels that she has a place to use her voice and that she feels that she can be brave and she can stand up for those and help others succeed in life and be kind. And so I hope she sees those characteristics in me.

- Well, I think that's a beautiful spot to wrap up. Adrienne, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today, but really thank you so much for everything that you do for Indeed every day and to help people get jobs all over the world.

- Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity.